INTERVIEW | ‘BJP doesn’t care about Hindus, makes use of them for votes’: Sasikanth Senthil

Sasikanth Senthil has been a key determine within the Congress’ resurgent efficiency within the 2024 Lok Sabha election. Although he prefers to maintain a low profile, Senthil (45) received his Lok Sabha election from Tiruvallur, a reserved (Scheduled Caste) constituency in Tamil Nadu, by a margin of over 5 and a half lakh votes, the best within the State. Senthil has additionally been actively concerned with the Congress “conflict room” for the overall election, which he additionally helped arrange in Karnataka forward of the 2023 Meeting election.

Senthil, who comes from a Dalit household, studied engineering at NIT Trichy earlier than cracking the civil companies examination to develop into an IAS officer. However he gave it up in 2019 to take up political activism, subsequently becoming a member of the Congress. Throughout his swearing-in ceremony as MP, he stood out for highlighting injustice in the direction of minorities, Dalits, and Adivasis, consistent with his occasion’s social justice plank. On this interview with senior journalist Saba Naqvi, Sasikanth Senthil talks about his journey to Parliament, his stint with the civil companies and why he give up, the state of Dalit politics in India, and extra. Excerpts:

How have your preliminary few days in Parliament been?

Good. It is extremely humbling for an individual like me as a result of the area that I come from, we’d not have dreamt to achieve this in a matter of fifty to 60 years. It actually issues not just for me however for lots of people from my group and my village.

You received from the seat of Tiruvallur with a margin of 5.72 lakh, which is the biggest in Tamil Nadu. You could have cracked an entrance examination, and you’ve got given it up. So, you can not say it’s humbling, you could have finished all of it and now you’re a Member of Parliament. Inform us a bit about your background.

I’ve finished all that not and not using a sure form of politics. I actually really feel that it isn’t solely about me and it isn’t about anyone who’re so-called achievers by themselves. You want a sure form of politics and atmosphere. On condition that atmosphere and scenario, any individual can show no matter they’ll. Whereas rising up, my father used to say that out of the 2 sons, one is for the home and one is for the nation. The one who’s for the nation, I used to imagine that it’s me and I’ve at all times charted my life like that. One other profound assertion he at all times used to say is that you must look again on the street that you just got here from. Wherever I’m going, I hold considering the place did I come from.

WATCH:

The Congress MP from Tiruvallur says that India won’t ever develop into revolutionary or artistic with the caste system.
| Video Credit score:
Interview by Saba Naqvi; Digicam by Dipesh Arora; Manufacturing Assistants: Vedaant Lakhera & Kavya Pradeep M.; Modifying by Samson Ronald Okay.; Supervising Producer: Jinoy Jose P.

The place did you come from?

I come from a first-generation Dalit background. It was my father’s technology who sucked up all the problems that that they had, however there was a form of politics working in Tamil Nadu which targeted on social justice and we had an incredible push in schooling as a result of we didn’t have anything. With that assist, he turned a authorities servant, after which from that time onwards, he at all times pushed us. So, I come from that visible of my village, my father’s life-style and so forth. So, that defines me largely.

Being from Tamil Nadu, do the fruits of the Dravidian motion additionally outline you? Did in addition they allow somebody such as you?

Sure, completely. With out that, we’re not right here.

You cracked the civil companies as a rank holder. Please inform us about that journey.

I did my engineering in electronics and communication from NIT Trichy. I used to be good with computer systems and that was the pc period too. Then I received into a superb firm however one thing was not working, as a result of I had this in my thoughts that I want to return and do no matter is required. Sooner or later, I realised I can’t stay with machines for a very long time. So I resigned from there and joined an NGO.

I labored with the school for a while and tried to see myself within the social area, which I discovered was working for me. After which I labored for an NGO on participatory rural appraisal methods. That’s when somebody instructed me that the federal government is the largest NGO and we must always attempt to go there. I noticed the civil service, tried making use of and in a matter of two years, I cleared the examination.

What number of instances did you sit for the doorway? 

I cleared it in my third try, after two severe makes an attempt. I used to be the primary ranker in Tamil Nadu and ninth in India.

You have been within the Karnataka cadre and your final posting was the DM [District Magistrate] of Mangalore. You then give up.

I give up the service in 2019 in protest. The politics that introduced me there: I noticed a menace to that from 2002 onwards, when the Godhra riots occurred. How can an elected authorities interact in one thing like this? From then, I began seeing the opposite politics that divide folks to win elections. I’ve been carefully watching each facet of that politics.

In 2014, when the one who was seen because the perpetrator of every part turned the Prime Minister of this nation, which I by no means thought would occur, I used to be very apprehensive that that is going to go in a distinct path. And for the subsequent 5 years, I watched them very carefully, their demonetisation… each facet of them. Every little thing was a copybook of the politics which occurred everywhere in the world. Historical past books are stuffed with indicators of what our nation goes by way of.

What’s the phrase you’d use for it?

I might say fascist. You’ll be able to say fascist-like politics or populist however I feel it’s bordering fascism.

In 2019, I used to be the District Election Officer of Mangalore, conducting the entire election, and in that chair you’re a impartial particular person. However I hoped in a bigger sense that this nation will give a distinct sign. It’s once they got here again to energy with a much bigger vote share, I believed that that is the time to struggle. I might be responsible of not defending the politics which made me.

Then they abrogated Article 370 and moved the Military into Kashmir. That was surprising however the concept of resigning got here after I noticed the entire army hold everyone within the State in home arrest.

Additionally Learn | Sasikanth Senthil, the IAS officer who resigned protesting the ‘fascist’ insurance policies of the Central authorities, joins Congress

So that you really resigned due to Kashmir?

Yeah, I resigned with Kashmir as a set off. Your entire politics gave a giant push to struggle in opposition to this. Within the resignation letter, I wrote very clearly that the federal government has come across the basics of a various democracy and I’m higher off outdoors preventing this reasonably than sitting inside.

Along with your ideology, how did the Congress, which is seen as a establishment occasion, encourage you?

Initially, I had no concept about political events. I used to be bothered in regards to the silence on this nation. I believed it could take me at the very least three years to maneuver across the nation and to push folks, particularly college students. I used to be like a really jittery fisherman who noticed the tsunami coming proper in the course of the ocean and who got here again to the shore to wake everyone up. I’m positive many people would have felt that. I used to be apprehensive in regards to the violence as a result of I knew {that a} fascist authorities will solely have violence as a solution to something which they’ll’t struggle.

Then they introduced in CAA [Citizenship Amendment Act] and NRC [National Register of Citizens]… Anyone who has learn Nazi historical past would know that the very first thing [Adolf] Hitler did was to register folks after which transfer them into classes, make differential legal guidelines and use it to place them in focus. So, there was a number of explaining that needed to be finished about CAA and NRC and we did that everywhere in the nation.

You probably did this as a member of the Congress?

No, it was all impartial. Speaking to college students, people, minorities, and particularly the bulk to make them perceive that you’re the precise victims. I used to be repeatedly travelling everywhere in the nation however largely in closed conferences and never in open boards.

Then Shaheen Bagh occurred, after which they began the Delhi riots. That’s precisely what I used to be afraid about, that they may have violence as a solution. And I knew that the violence won’t be perpetuated by the federal government on folks, however folks can be pitted in opposition to one another. That’s the fundamental harm any fascist authorities would do. They are going to divide folks in order that the folks do the killing and so they can simply be the observers. Round 150 folks have been murdered on this and I used to be working a management room, attempting to assist folks.

How did the Congress journey start? 

I believed that if harmless individuals are going to lose their lives, then I ought to use the political discussion board, the democratic area, which remains to be out there to struggle in opposition to them. I went to the Congress on my own as a result of I knew it had the ideological background and the breadth and size to struggle them.

Whom did you method? 

I had a senior colleague who was within the Congress. It was when the Tamil Nadu election [in 2021] began,  I made a decision to take the formal plunge into the Congress. I organised the marketing campaign in a really formal and logical manner. I organised a small conflict room after which we labored on that. As I began working with the organisation of the Congress, I began falling in love with it. As a result of for me, each political occasion has three main steps; organisation, ideology, and management.

Within the Congress, the organisation isn’t the leaders alone—it has an enormous cadre base. Each village you go to, you’ll have some 10 Congressmen and girls who nonetheless consider in empathy, love and affection. So, I began falling in love with that cadre base whereby folks assume goodness is what they need. So this organisation is giving me that area to maneuver round.

You might be speaking about south India. Within the north, they appear to have vanished.

No, they’re nonetheless there. The connection appears to have vanished. However in each village, for those who simply rub their floor, they may say that we are literally Rajiv Gandhi followers, Indira Gandhi gave this home, and so forth.

I consider that the ideology of Congress is the Structure and it’s the written manifesto of the occasion. It’s the product of the liberty motion, a motion for fairness, which was not simply in opposition to the British however was additionally bringing the ethos that we’ve because the Structure. So, it was pure for me to take up that ideology and work for it.

Rahul Gandhi, senior Congress chief and Chief of the Opposition within the Lok Sabha. Sasikanth Senthil believes that Rahul understands how India is “fantastically chaotic”.
| Picture Credit score:
PRIYANSHU SINGH/REUTERS/File Picture

How do you see Rahul Gandhi as we speak? Is he altering the Congress?

Rahul Gandhi is a particularly good human being. He’s very sharp and radical. He believes in humanistic ideas. In that manner, something related to him will change.

One nice instance is the Bharat Jodo Yatra and it is among the greatest causes for our success. The Congress’ language was not rhetoric and massive speeches. It was strolling. When you have a pacesetter like that who can lead from the entrance, the organisation will change and it has modified.

Rahul Gandhi, as a member of the household, has simply taken a place within the authorities for the primary time. Does that imply that we are going to now see him as a chief ministerial candidate or is it inevitable that the Congress will see him sooner or later?

I’m not an incredible fan of what’s going to come sooner or later. However I can very clearly inform that he’s a pacesetter with all of the character and facets which this nation is all about.

Are you speaking about discovering morality in public life once more?

Not solely that, you want a sure thoughts to know India. In India, we don’t tolerate variations, we have fun it. We’re fantastically chaotic and one wants to know that. And I feel Rahul Gandhi is somebody who clearly understands that and may lead everyone in the direction of.

“The BJP and RSS are making the Muslims the brand new Dalits.”

As a Dalit MP, at what stage are we in our personal historical past so far as Ambedkar’s imaginative and prescient is taken into account? And what precisely has occurred in Uttar Pradesh or Maharashtra, has there been a shift within the Dalit politics or is it inconceivable to generalise?

I feel we have been in the correct path till we forgot to do what Ambedkar instructed us to do within the final speech, that’s social freedom. I might even increase that a bit and speak about caste as a vital issue. Your entire burden of the caste system is borne by the Dalits. It’s a graded hierarchy, as Ambedkar says. So, when somebody propagates caste, even by way of a surname, we might not know what affect it has even when they don’t seem to be casteist. After we do a little bit of propagation for that, the burden of that entire caste system is borne by the Dalits as a result of they’re on the backside most. 

So far as questioning the caste system, we’ve not gone a lot additional. We now have form of stopped some atrocities right here and there however largely we’re a casteist society. And casteism, patriarchy, and so on.: these are all sister brothers, there may be not a lot distinction. So, we’ve to know the caste system and focus on the way it propagates.

In direction of what Ambedkar visualised, I don’t assume we’ve gone an extended distance however we have been within the path: so long as we thought in a authorized, rational system and we moved, we upheld affirmative motion, and I’m a product of that. However so much must be finished to know the entire nexus. You can not simply handle Dalits as such. It’s the system. 

Are Muslims even on the lowest in society now? Can we make an equation between communities and caste? 

The issuewith caste is that there is no such thing as a escape route. Your marriage, love, and every part is restricted. You can not transfer out of that area in any respect. And generations collectively, you can not transfer. You could have an occupation related to you as nicely that retains reminding you who you’re.

With communalism, there is likely to be escape routes. However with the BJP and the RSS, apparently I noticed that they’re really making the Muslims the brand new Dalits.

You have been in Mangalore, the place there may be various wealth with the Muslim group. Simply clarify the equations proper now.

Wherever the bottom of social strata gathers wealth, there can be violence… Caste and communalism will develop into stronger. So, this concept of “I’m up and you’re down” needs to be re-established in society by way of sure practices. The one good manner we present in governance is affirmative motion to deliver up a group in order that it’s equal.

However Muslims can’t get reservation, besides by way of caste teams.

As a result of caste has two escape routes. There’s this concept of air pollution, which is now being talked in regards to the Muslims. Throughout COVID-19, they introduced on this Tablighi Jamaat.

One other fascinating factor is that the largest caste is ladies. Every little thing that’s there in a caste system is there in ladies too. They speak about purity, when ladies might be touched. They can’t have their love life and there’s a divine ordinance on how they need to behave and every part. So it’s all the identical. It’s all a really clever system of hierarchies constructed.

We now have not gone additional and can by no means develop additional if we don’t cope with this caste system. Additionally, India won’t ever develop into revolutionary or artistic with the caste system, as a result of the top that thinks is with somebody and the fingers that work are with another person. They each won’t mingle. And for those who don’t mingle these two issues, you’ll by no means innovate.

We’re good in principle. We’re good at many different issues however we don’t create stuff. As a result of this behavior of making isn’t proper, it isn’t there. So a caste needs to be on the top and a few caste needs to be on the hand.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi with Lok Sabha Speaker Om Birla after putting in the sengol on the inauguration of the brand new Parliament constructing, in New Delhi, on Could 28, 2023. Sasikanth Senthil believes that if the sengol is construed to be one thing like a stick, it higher go away.
| Picture Credit score:
PTI

Do you assume we’re seeing a metamorphosis: just like the Bahujan Samaj Occasion, as an illustration, is declining. We now have one other younger MP in Parliament, Chandrashekhar Azad. So are these new voices?

These voices are crucial and they provide you with the correct understanding of Dalit politics. So I’m very joyful to see many extra children developing and placing up a system to struggle. However it’s also very simple to get deviated into another fights. In order that has its personal political churning and it’s taking place. However I might not say that we’ve come a great distance. The society has not come a great distance in patriarchy and caste system.

There’s immediately a requirement that the Sengol needs to be withdrawn. Does it characterize something for Tamil folks?

I don’t assume so. The one factor is that it got here from Tamil Nadu. Sengol represents justice.

Does it characterize justice or monarchy?

When you could have a monarchy and extraordinary energy in your hand, it is extremely essential to have that concept of justice, fairness and fraternity. It isn’t only a stick with rule. Ethically managing energy is essential and I feel it represents that. However whether it is construed to be one thing like a danda, it higher go away.

It’s fascinating that the Samajwadi Occasion MP [R.K. Chaudhary] has written to take away that rather than the Structure.

I might certainly agree as a result of I do know what the Structure is. I don’t have an interpretation there. I would definitely agree with that.

Would you agree with the proposition to switch the sengol and put the Structure again? 

When there may be this Structure, which is a written, authorized, rational factor, I worth it a lot above any form of symbolism. Right this moment, I see in lots of church buildings, folks have put the Preamble; in many homes, I’ve seen the Preamble. I’m very joyful to see that. As a result of there is no such thing as a interpretation over that, why will we struggle, what does it characterize, let’s write it down. That’s the entire concept of a progressive society, proper? Allow us to not work on any individual—a thinker king, allow us to write down how they may function.

Additionally Learn | The altering face of Dalit politics

I wish to know what did the Congress conflict room obtain? As a result of the Congress didn’t have a superb construction within the Hindi belt. It has carried out higher, particularly in some seats in Uttar Pradesh in an alliance. The numbers have gone up. Are you able to inform me what have been you attempting to realize within the conflict room?

I might not to start with, name it a conflict room as a result of we’re not doing any conflict there. We try to hook up with a number of cadre folks. However this entire change in voting behaviour is not only in regards to the join centre, it’s about management, it’s in regards to the narratives, the leaders.

How essential is the sales space administration? That’s the place I at all times felt that the Congress was weak as in comparison with the RSS-BJP cadre.

It’s important, but it surely alone can’t function. You want a story and the organisation. That’s when the organisation and narrative, together with the correct communication, will really affect voting behaviour. So it has to function on an equal stage. The Congress was weak in that area, and we tried to steadiness it this time.

However I additionally need to say this, that Lok Sabha elections are largely narrative elections. What’s the narrative that the chief goes to provide?

So, what was the narrative as you understood presently?

This time we have been very clear, at the very least Rahul ji was main the narrative. And he had wonderful readability in what the narrative needs to be. And greater than that, what it can’t develop into.

What was it? Please inform us what you noticed.

So the BJP had a story on the traces that we anticipated—polarisation. That’s the narrative they promote. They work on the concern in a voter’s thoughts. That “Ye hoga toh vo hojayega” varieties. We wished to go perpendicular, by no means parallel in any strategy to them. Perpendicular, dissecting the livelihood points, dissecting employment, dissecting ladies’s empowerment, and we proposed 5 ensures—every part affecting a household.

I do know the ensures since you have been a part of it in Karnataka. I’ve seen these and also you have been joyful, however the level is there has additionally been a number of criticism that may they be afforded? Is the Karnataka authorities having the ability to pay its payments?

Sure, Karnataka is paying it, and we’ve thought over it. It isn’t being finished and not using a thought course of.

I consider that the Prime Minister really picked up the concept of “Modi Ki Assure” after the Karnataka election’s “Congress Ki Assure”. However it didn’t work, it boomeranged on them.

Allow us to rewind. A yr earlier than he was calling it revadi. He was making enjoyable of it, after which he took the phrase himself, as regular with none disgrace, after which used it as Modi Ki Assure. However the issue is he by no means instructed what that assure was.

So, you felt that it was the financial points or was it the caste census? Or was it that he would take away reservation?

The first line is the financial points. Now, there may be one other line that BJP themselves had given in our hand, that they don’t seem to be going to attend, they will change the Samvidhan [Constitution]. After which the entire concept of “400 sau paar”. Folks might simply perceive that these guys are going to do that. Now, they’re giving a model of majoritarian politics saying that “Hum Hindu hai, hum Hindu ka he downside horahe” [We are Hindu and these are the problems we face]. So, India is the one nation the place even this majoritarian line is pretend. In different majoritarian nations, there may be actual majoritarianism.

Why is that this pretend? 

As a result of, in different majoritarian nations, you could have undue benefit for almost all after which the minority will get a really robust deal. Right here in India, the bulk itself will get a tough deal from the BJP and after I ask for caste census, who am I asking for? I’m asking it for the Hindus. And the overwhelming majority of the Hindus are going to get benefited out of that. Why wouldn’t the BJP not need it?

Why do they not need it?

As a result of they care a rattling about Hindu and Hinduism. They solely use it as a software to achieve votes. Of their hearts, they’re casteists, and they’re casteist folks sitting on the upper echelons, attempting to flummox the remainder of the caste system to make [them] consider they’ve really received.

However Narendra Modi is OBC.

Yeah, however he doesn’t care about OBCs. He ought to have been preventing for the caste census, why is he not? So he’s this opportunist who’s simply mil-ofied [collaborating] with the higher echelons and attempting to utilise the entire pretend narrative of Hinduism, Hindutva, to achieve votes, that’s all.

And after they achieve votes, their precise enemies are these OBCs, SCs, STs—I don’t assume they’ve a lot to do with Muslims. They do this in order that they get votes. However after that, they’ve been solely destroying the lives of no matter affirmative motion this class of Hinduism received. That’s the reason I say India is the one nation the place Hinduism [and] this entire majoritarian politics can be a pretend majoritarianism.